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Goddamnit

I don't know how many of you still read this comm, but I'll post anyway! On Tuesday Yahoo laid off the entire Delicious team and today it announced at a company all-hands meeting that it will be "sunsetting" Delicious, aka shutting it down, although there are no details yet on when or how, from any of my sources inside Yahoo. It could be months or years - although they'll almost certainly announce it ahead of time (at some point), like Geocities.

I used Delicious from the first day it was released in 2003 and worked for it as the community manager from 2005 to 2009 - you might remember me from a few posts on this comm and from my thousands of posts on the Delicious support forum. Delicious means more to me than I know how to explain.

Options for moving your bookmarks: Two of my best friends (and also friends of the Delicious founder) maintain the best Delicious clone, called Pinboard, here: http://pinboard.in/ - I fully recommend it. It's fast and simple and not-gorgeous, but it works. It's worth the $7. Diigo - http://www.diigo.com/ - is also an option, with more features, but I've never had full confidence in its reliability or security (I've observed it being pretty buggy - I'd just be careful).

But both of those services simply tolerate fan stuff, like Delicious does/did, and I'm thinking about a plan to make a clone specialized for fandom bookmarks, something like how Dreamwidth is a fan-friendly clone of LJ. I also have a full-time job at a real (and very very exciting in itself) startup, so I can't devote all that much energy to this, but I have weekends! Well, usually.

In other words: I get all maudlin about what Delicious could have been, and it's time to channel that into something productive. And I need a good name for it! Ideas? And you guys would be my first and best users, and I'd need your help for this crazy project - right now, figuring out what the minimal set of features would be. What are the very basics you would need before moving your bookmarks to this thing? Import from Delicious, tags, bundles, notes, titles, what else?

Update:

Edited a bit for clarity and updating. My initial idea for a name was "ficrinth", but you all are right, something like "fanmarks" would be better. Also, since Dreamwidth has memories and AO3 has bookmarking features, this thing would need to interoperate with those sites in a sensible way! Or maybe the most minimal version of this idea, actually, would be to brainstorm about what AO3 and Dreamwidth need in order to work well, and then collaboratively work on making that happen. It might actually be detrimental to have *three* places for the same kind of links and metadata — maybe this project could instead serve as a kind of bridge between Dreamwidth, AO3, Pinboard, etc. — for better rec sharing and finding than any one of them by themselves. Hmm.

(Pinboard is really best for a general Delicious replacement right now, by the way. They import from Delicious, and they can handle large accounts - their largest account has 60,000 bookmarks right now and that's fine with them, and they are also perfectly fine with the idea of accounts full of kink meme links.)

Update again: If you're interested in this idea and/or have lots to say, join this comm! I'll be posting again in a few days with a more structured discussion of options so we can figure out how to organize our energy and efforts. (It's also open to posting by other people if you want to start other discussions about this stuff.)

For convenience, here's a link to the page where you can export your Delicious bookmarks: https://secure.delicious.com/settings/bookmarks/export - and make sure you read this part: "Also note that if you have created tag bundles, they will not be preserved in your exported file. This is a limitation of the export file format." (Odd to quote myself; I wrote the sentences on that page.) You'll have to make your own list of your bundles and the tags that belong in each one, or use the API to grab the list - but that requires some tech savvy and the list may not be able to be imported into any other bookmarking service anyway. In the easiest case, if you have an old Delicious account (no Yahoo! login) and you have a Mac, go to to Applications -> Utilities -> Terminal and put this in: curl https://{username}:{password}@api.del.icio.us/v1/tags/bundles/all > bundles.txt — you'll get a bundles.txt file in your user directory (the folder that contains your Desktop, Documents, etc. folders) that lists your bundles in XML format.

And another update: An announcement on the Delicious blog: "we are not shutting down Delicious...we believe there is a ideal home for Delicious outside of the company where it can be resourced to the level where it can be competitive." - I have to do my work today instead of focusing on this stuff right now, but a very interesting development.

Another: Metafandom has a great roundup of current discussions. And there's some confusion everywhere about whether anybody is left on the Delicious team; my understanding now is that there are two engineers making sure the service doesn't fall over accidentally.

Comments

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blue_meridian
Dec. 16th, 2010 08:15 pm (UTC)
*insert lots of swearing*

Thank you for the heads up. My problem with Diigo in the recent past was that it didn't import the full text of the notes field from Delicious - it seemed to just be importing the shorter text field that Delicious used to have. If you have a smaller number of bookmarks, it might be worth the trouble to fix after importing but I've just crossed 4.000 and I'd prefer not to.

The only other thing I'd add to your list would be tag bundles, ideally. I use the networking features extensively but it wouldn't be a deal breaker in the beginning.
turlough
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:04 pm (UTC)
My problem with Diigo in the recent past was that it didn't import the full text of the notes field from Delicious - it seemed to just be importing the shorter text field that Delicious used to have.

That kills Diigo as an alternative for me then, grrrr!
(no subject) - blue_meridian - Dec. 16th, 2010 09:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
haikitteh
Dec. 16th, 2010 08:23 pm (UTC)
This is astonishing news. Delicious seems to be the go-to bookmarking site - I can't believe they would close it!

I have been using Diigo, and frankly, I'm not super impressed. Continuing to use it out of being too lazy to export my bookmarks, but seems like there must be better out there. If you are launching a bookmarking site, I'd definitely be interested in checking it out. It sounds like your site would be specifically for fiction, though, and I'm not sure I'd be swayed totally over to that without the ability to bookmark other stuff I find on the internet. (Just my 2 cents!)
dreamyshade
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:43 pm (UTC)
Yeah, Diigo is just...ugh, really. But I figured I should mention it.

And oh, I definitely wouldn't make mine exclude normal-stuff bookmarks! Just consciously supporting fannish use, with great tag combinations, ability to ignore LJ post parameters so you can easily get a true count of bookmarks for a story, supporting structured tags in a sensible way, etc.
(no subject) - paraka - Dec. 17th, 2010 12:09 am (UTC) - Expand
rivkat
Dec. 16th, 2010 08:32 pm (UTC)
Here via blue_meridian. What bad news! FYI, archiveofourown.org has a fanworks-focused bookmarking system for anyone with an account; you might be interested in checking in with them to see if there's any chance of synergy.
dreamyshade
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:43 pm (UTC)
Yeah! AO3 is such a fantastic project. It seemed like their bookmarking thing is only for fic on AO3 though, right? Not for everything?
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pollyrepeat
Dec. 16th, 2010 08:40 pm (UTC)
Augh, this is awful. Delicious has been my primary fandom home since early 2006, and if I'm broken up about it, I can't imagine how you must feel. ♥

Thank you for the heads-up and the suggestions. As far as migration to a fan-friendly clone, I'll echo blue_meridian's suggestion of tag bundles. The ability to specify private/public bookmarks would also be nice.
dreamyshade
Dec. 16th, 2010 10:11 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that's the thing with Pinboard...it intentionally has no tag bundles, for simplicity. I'd want to support bundles of bundles to whatever level of Inception-style craziness people wanted to subject themselves to. :] And private/public definitely - maybe also a "toread" button, with integrating into Instapaper for easy reading later. I use Stanza and Instapaper all the time for that kind of thing.

And thank you. I'm really ridiculously lucky that I am working for a startup that I really enjoy, with a shiny exciting future - it's the best antidote to feeling blah! And I should get back to work right now...
(no subject) - nezmar - Dec. 17th, 2010 01:37 am (UTC) - Expand
lattara
Dec. 16th, 2010 08:57 pm (UTC)
Also: integrating it in firefox.
callowyn
Dec. 17th, 2010 05:47 am (UTC)
Seconding this. The insta-tag button in Firefox is what lets me use delicious efficiently at all. I'd also like the ability to show specific tags in the menu bar: basically, the functions of the current add-on.
(no subject) - lapillus - Dec. 19th, 2010 05:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - csad21 - Dec. 19th, 2010 06:54 am (UTC) - Expand
catechism
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:05 pm (UTC)
I WILL HELP YOU WITH YOUR CLONE, BRITTA.

...uh, that looks flaily, but is actually a serious offer. I am really concerned about the effect this is going to have on fandom! (Although I guess the OTW has some kind of bookmarking thing, so that is possibly worth checking out; I have remained loyal to del, so I haven't looked at it.)
blue_meridian
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:09 pm (UTC)
The AO3 bookmarks are set up for fannish works - either on or off the archive - but not for importing or anything like. Still good for checking out as a reference for fannish works bookmarking, if nothing else, but for those with a lot of bookmarks already built up, it's unfortunately not a stand in.
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semielliptical
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:21 pm (UTC)
This news makes me so sad. :(

But I'm pleased to hear that there might be a fan-friendly clone! Ficrinth is a cute name, but implies it's just for fic, not bookmarking other fannish pages, or the other stuff that fans might bookmark related to their other interests and hobbies.
kiki_eng
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:37 pm (UTC)
implies it's just for fic Yes, this.

"fenrinth" maybe? *pokes at it*
(no subject) - dreamyshade - Dec. 16th, 2010 10:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
sockkpuppett
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:31 pm (UTC)
*silent scream* Thank you for the info.

*exports bookmarks*
*cries*
morgandawn
Dec. 17th, 2010 01:05 am (UTC)
we're heading over to diigo. Lots of basic services free, automatic import from delicious and it allows you to look at other people's links and find recs.
ursamajor
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:38 pm (UTC)
This comm was the first place I thought of when I heard the news. Omigod, I am so incredibly irate right now. And panicky, because given the manner in which Yahoo has shut down other properties, and my lackadaisicalness in making sure I have my Delicious backed up, and the boogeyman of Yahoo still controlling Flickr as well ...

Also, IIRC Dreamwidth was working on improving the memories feature over there to be more like Delicious - a number of us are chatting about it right now, to see if the dev priority can be moved up for it, or if we can do anything else to help.

I wish we had a shutdown date, but I have to admit I wouldn't trust it, anyway.

Edited at 2010-12-16 09:40 pm (UTC)
dreamyshade
Dec. 16th, 2010 10:17 pm (UTC)
Oh excellent - maybe I just need to work on something that aggregates Dreamwidth's and AO3's bookmarks in a sensible and useful way. Hrm.
anatsuno
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:38 pm (UTC)
fanmarks? i mean, okay, it's a bit cheesy, the 'marks suffix. But semielliptical is right, ficrynth is sadly fic-focused. fandom also bookmarks interviews and canon-bits, podfic posts, meta, fanart... Just saying. :)

I would LOVE to see a fan-made fandom-friendly alternative. LOVE. I think it could benefit from getting a kickstarter page, too... *g*
arduinna.dreamwidth.org
Dec. 16th, 2010 10:25 pm (UTC)
"fanmarks" was my first thought, as well. I like it because it doesn't just imply bookmarks, but the "marks" fans leave in terms of fanworks and essays and whatnot.
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carnadosa
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:52 pm (UTC)
As I just whined over at copperbadge, delicious is the index to my life. Honestly, if I think about it too hard I'll start crying. I mean, I'm sure I'll adjust to browser bookmarking (because it DOES have tags), but the sheer amount of work I've put into my account...*cries* Plus, network and subscriptions! I'm not even sure how I used to find fic anymore.

The tags, notes and titles are the basics, but I'd really like bundles too. Even if I mostly set up my tagging to not need it.
jenna_marianne
Dec. 17th, 2010 03:31 am (UTC)
This is so true for me too! I've been experimenting with diigo, but it's not the same. Also need to try out pinboard, since people are saying good things about it.

But nothing is quite like delicious. :(
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zellieh
Dec. 16th, 2010 09:58 pm (UTC)
I really like the idea of a fannish version of Delicious. I love using Delicious and tags as a sort of fic-rec/fan-art/vids/fan-work finding service.

Is it possible to also look into synergy with Dreamwidth, since they use tagging and Memories on their site?

I don't think I'd immediately get the 'ficrynth' reference, and I'm never sure how to spell 'labyrinth' anyway, as you can see. (Is it 'labyrinth' or 'labirynth'?) I'm not sure I'd know what the name was referring to, or be able to remember it or spell it easily.

As far as the name goes, I think something simple like Fan.Of would be good. Or maybe something even more basic like Book.marks?
just_chiara
Dec. 16th, 2010 10:01 pm (UTC)
I am so sad about delicious :(

I would definitely use ficrinth (cool name!), it sounds like a wonderful idea. Bundles would be really useful, though. :)
kyuuketsukirui
Dec. 16th, 2010 10:16 pm (UTC)
This would be so awesome! I second anatsuno's suggestion of fanmarks.
weimar27
Dec. 16th, 2010 10:33 pm (UTC)
The fandom oriented bookmarking idea is really cool.
zillah975
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:13 pm (UTC)
Here via kyuuketsukirui and just want to add my voice to the masses crying YES PLS.

Also, thirding (fourthing?) "fanmarks".
adelate
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:16 pm (UTC)
I really, really love the idea of a fandom oriented bookmarking site. I've been devastated about the news since I heard earlier today and have been trying to find something similar to migrate to.

I also like the suggestion of fanmarks.
moleskinned
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:18 pm (UTC)

for name suggestions, how about fictit.io.us? :D

or ficticious, or just ficlicious? :)


I have over eleven THOUSAND bookmarks on delicious. it is the single most important internet tool in my life. i would love to help you with a clone product in any way that I could.
wolfgrin
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:52 pm (UTC)
THIS. I have totally always wished fandom would come up with its own delicious alternative called fictitious. I seriously wrote it down somewhere a few years ago! I like fanmarks, too, actually.
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talk_back
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:22 pm (UTC)
Here via metafandom.

It's awful to hear about delicious... I can't believe it's going away, it always seemed very well-frequented. Thanks for keeping us updated.

(And, as a second-year compsci major, I eagerly volunteer myself if you need extra partially-skilled help as you go forward with this project. /is not a creep, I promise.)
cinnamonblood
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:24 pm (UTC)
As someone who has hundreds of fan fics bookmarked on Delicious, I would love something like that. I'm exporting everything to Diigo for now, though I don't actually like them that much, I just don't want to lose everything.

I'm casting my vote for "fanmarks".
mumblemutter
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:31 pm (UTC)
Another vote for fanmarks, and would love to help out in any way I can.

*mourns heavily*
who_love
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:51 pm (UTC)
Here via bookshop

I really like the "fanmarks" idea :)
octette
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:52 pm (UTC)
this is such a great idea! i'm nthing "fanmarks"!
b_mouse
Dec. 16th, 2010 11:53 pm (UTC)
Britta, thank you for all your work over the years at Delicious. You were incredible in the help forums.

As a moderator of a kink meme with a large Delicious presence (10,000+ links and counting), I have a question: would your planned project include the stability and server space required for accounts like ours to exist there? We're always looking over our shoulders at the possibility that our resources might be deleted due to their sexual nature, so I'm very excited to hear about your idea.

(The following is me speaking as an individual, not for the mod team at kinkme_merlin.)

At a first guess, I'd say our team would need: import, export backup, tags, notes, titles, bundles, search (preferably tag-based if possible, but I know that's more complicated), and basic edit functions for tags and entries.

We would also need to be able to have multiple people logged into the same account for long periods of time. I don't know about the other 8 taggers on our meme, but I only ever log out of the shared account when I'm specifically doing something with a personal account.

Dreams I could live without but would love: tag+tag, tag-tag, tag OR tag (AO3 searches are working on implementing basic boolean, and it's like a little slice of heaven :D), quick account switching for power users, and entry counts both on the main page and beside tags (and on searches, but that probably goes without saying).

I'll be consulting with my fellow mods and possibly some other kink meme mods about this issue within the next couple of days. I'll drop a link to that discussion when it happens. Thank you for giving us something to actually research and discuss so we're not just sitting around tearing our hair out.

(And as yet another aside, it might be nice to have a project name that shows the diversity of fandom, rather than focusing on one medium? I don't have any actual suggestions, since I suck at naming things, but someone around here has to be good with that sort of thing, right?)
b_mouse
Dec. 17th, 2010 02:21 am (UTC)
Ok, we're testing sites out here. Input welcome by anyone who wants to drop by.
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bobrhyn
Dec. 17th, 2010 12:03 am (UTC)
This is exactly, exactly what I was desperately hoping would happen. If Yahoo goes ahead and makes an announcement - which, god, part of me just cannot believe will happen, surely they cannot be that stupid, but then - then a fandom-friendly delicious clone would be, really, the only non-terrible solution.

I like the phrasing that makes it clearly "fandom conscious", but fandom use was only ~60% of my delicious use. I know that yeah, of course we'd be able to add anything, but I'm a little wary of making it a ~Fandom~ platform. The main thing, I think, is that I loved the sheer breadth of bookmarks in delicious - for example, especially recently, I've been using it for finding recipes. ... Although part of me does kind of adore the idea of going to a place with recs from everyone in fandom only. If someone could mirror all of delicious and analyze the differences between content, t'would be fascinating. ... Okay, I've talked myself out of this concern somewhat, carry on.

ruggerdavey
Dec. 17th, 2010 04:56 pm (UTC)
Yeah, there's more to delicious than just fandom. As a teacher, I've actually got a school account too - I've got a delicious embed on my classroom website for that account (it shows the 4 latest links with tags and descriptions included). It lets me provide links to various resources without having to constantly edit the links page on the website. So I've got to get TWO accounts somewhere so I can still have both, and I definitely need the ability to embed it into my class website.
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